One more thing I wanted to ask, I had Superman and Batman's birthday set at 1940. That's only a "circa" date, but it has to be close to that. I notice you had Batman age twenty-six in 1968, that makes him born 1942, which is still close to the same year. Just wondering if you wanted to stick with 1940 or not. I had Superman's birthday in 1940 and with that, a whole lot of past dates from The Planet-Splitter and other episodes were reached.
We know Wonder Woman is 1941, as it was established (although confusingly) in Secret Origins of the Superfriends. But Superman and Batman were a bit conjecture, but as I said many events were placed throughout the timeline based on those events. For example:
That's just one, there's several others. Anyway do you think we have to move the birthdays too...I guess that's what I'm trying to ask.
Here's the problem with Superman being 14 or so in 1957. In the Filmation cartoon, which has to be 1955, he would be 12 or so...that's not possible. He attended Smallville High School in the show. And the Filmation show is DEFINITELY set in 1955. See this article. The only way it might not be 1955 is if we are to assume that on Earth-1A, the real world event happened on a different year.
I think that's a bad idea, as it would contradict the real life event. Hurricane Hilda, which was mentioned by name, happened in the show, and that was; in the real world at least, in 1955.
I don't have a problem with Batman being twenty six when he becomes Batman, but it doesn't have to be in '68, it could be '66 and still fit into the timeline just fine. But if we're to make that adjustment that's fine, but I don't see how we could do that to Superman.
So he could be born in 1941 using it that way. Another thing, I don't consider the Filmation cartoons any less canon...I consider them equals. And why shouldn't they be? They came first, it took one to lead to the other and so forth.
As for the way that they look in the 1980s. The thing about animation, is that it's difficult to know unless maybe a streak of gray hair here and there is visible. Anyway they'd just be in their forties, which isn't that old, I know people a good deal older than me that have less gray (and no gray) in their hair. I'm talking people in there sixties and older. I also don't see that as a problem.
Another thing, if you want to make Superman younger than we have him here, that's fine, as long as there's nothing to contradict it. That's only one year difference so it should be okay.
EDIT: Anyway I'm fine with that. There doesn't seem to be any contradictions there. we'll just have to make the adjustments in the timeline. So just so I understand...Batman's still born in 1940 and Superman in 1941 now right?
Yeah I saw you changed the Grodd page. No big deal. We can do it like that. Fine with me.
It's no big deal really. I'm cool with it as you made it.
Yeah works for me I guess. I always knew they used a reverse image of the same animation cell but one is clearly in Miami and the other in Gotham. However you wanna do it.
Thank you very much I appreciate that very much. That's great to know. I just broke my ankle and things have been real tough. I can only sit at the computer for so long my back starts to collapse from the inactivity. I find myself just using my walker to get from my recliner to the computer desk chair. I go to the bathroom just to piss all over the place. I never realized how bad this would be.
24 more hours until my surgery.
Well I guess the surgery went well, I've been so tired today, just resting a whole lot.
It's always been you man...I wish I had a relationship with a woman that lasted that long. LOL
Yeah, had to go back to the hospital again yesterday but I'm better today. Yes sir...eleven years huh? Good lord.
Holy Distant Futures Batman! It's 2020!!
Can't believe it, and my ankle's still broken!
I remember you telling me about the hyperlink on the top of the page I just forgot. Yeah we can fix that.
I don't recall the episode. In fact I've been rewatching season two with my boy, but sometimes I dose off while I'm watching it. There is a line said by the narrator that I remember pretty clearly though. something like:
"Meanwhile, at the Hall of Justice in Metropolis..."
But I don't recall the episode. I wish I had jotted it down immediately when I had heard it but I'm certain it's there somewhere. And it might have not been season 2 but I felt certain it was.
If you want to revert that until I can figure it out you can. But I'm 99 percent positive at this point...yes, I had to drop it down a percentage since we have this conversation.
Yeah, my back isn't the greatest either I injured it back in 2015 or so, but I only missed a week of work. This time I'll almost certainly be off three months. I'm lucky that my family has been taking care of me or I'd be screwed. I live with my sister and brother in law since 2014. It was just to help them get the house, because they didn't have the credit, they had the income not the credit. So I did, and my mom and other sister moved in too. We signed the contract blaw blaw blaw. I was supposed to be out within a year, but almost immediately my brother in law broke his back and tore a ligament in his ankle. He's still unemployed to this day and trying to get disability. Looks like I'll get my short-term disability before he gets his full-time disability. The legal system...Jesus. So I've been here ever since but seeing how I'm injured now, I'm glad I do...I would never be able to take care of myself alone let alone everything else. It's nuts.
On the other hand, I don't miss work AT ALL.
I went ahead and reworded it. What I had actually meant was, that the atmosphere on Mars isn't breathable in the Super Friends era, but it might have been in the future when Mars was colonized. But I reworded it so that it didn't sound so absolute.
The thing is, on Earth-1A, Venus seems to have the atmosphere of a rainforest or something like that, even though in the real world, the atmosphere is probably liquid carbon at its' surface. (if I remember correctly). Mars on the other hand, seems to be more similar to its' real world counterpart.
Do you know about this Safety Tip. I don't think its' from 1977, so that has to mean that Safety tips were on other episodes after that as well. It's got me having vague memories, but nothing concrete.
It's marked 1982, but we known there was no new episodes '82, unless of course these were just used with reruns. I also seem to recall a video of Samurai and a boy getting bit by a dog. But I have no clue where that came from either. Do you know where these may have came from. Could they be orphans for now?
The thing is I didn't even realize that these existed aside from The All-New Super Friends Hour, and even in that, I don't remember them using special guest heroes just the main members. I could be wrong, but this doesn't look right. It says "Safety Tip" instead of "Safety," and I just watched this with my boy not long ago. We didn't finish the whole season but most of it.
I don't know it's weird to me, because none of the DVD's have them included in them...not by my memory. Any idea where they belong? Also, how many more do you think there were?
Beautiful background image my friend! Absolutely lovely!
Nice to have a change now and then.
I actually like how you have them, kinda light grayish or silver from the looks of it. I honestly think that if you were gonna change it, something blueish would probably be best...but I don't know for sure.
What I did was just expand on it. The information it came from was very much a Pre-Crisis source, but I'll have to do more research again to find out exactly what. I'm pretty sure it was an early Brainiac story with Koko. But other than that --
When I write these articles, the only Earth-One material I use is the "fill in the blanks" stuff. I know you have a whole entire section devoted to Earth-One, where it says: "In the parallel universe of Earth-One..." but I don't like to do that, to me that just makes things more confusing, as my main goal is focusing on the Super Friends Universe. And I don't know what you think of the Filmation cartoons, but I think they more canon than anything shown in Earth-One, unless those comics were referenced in one of the Super Friends comics.
As for Post-Crisis stuff. I don't see how that applies to the Computer Tyrants page at all, nor am I really familiar enough with the topic to write about it, that would be further research. Also, as I said before, the "comics" part of the article was the fill-in-the-blanks section, the rest of it came from the Filmation cartoons. One was Superman Meets Brainiac and the there was one other one which I forgot.
Naturally, they weren't referred to as Computer Tyrants, but the state of their planet was quite clear, the state of the government led to nuclear wars, (Mega's atomic wars) and blaw blaw blaw. Vril Dox was never mentioned in the Superfriends outside of the Super Powers comics, so naturally, he wasn't mentioned in any Filmation or Super Friends episode, so I just put him in the article "where he belonged" to fill in the blanks.
Also The New Adventures of Batman episode Bite Sized has a two Coluan villains in it, Electro (who was a cyborg or android like Brainiac) and the Commander, a fully biological Coluan who served as his henchman. They weren't referred to as Coluans in the episode, but it's obvious they were, they had Proton Shrinkers and other technology that was clearly Coluan in origin, plus their skin color gave it away. So anyway, that's how they ended up in the article. I will make the source notes though. Thank you friend.
Do you know who this actor is? Isn't he Jeffrey Wright from the TV show "Westworld"? I don't know if you've seen that show or not, but it's a pretty good sci-fi show.
But anyway, he looks like him to me, but I wanted another opinion. I also think when we run across stuff like this it would be neat to have sort of a discussion section on the Super Friends Wiki page, because I started the discussion in the image page, but not very many people are gonna see that...pretty much just me and you. I don't know, just a thought, nothing important anyway.
I understand what you do...usually I source the material, I don't know why I didn't in this instance, but usually I do, you can see I changed the page.
Also, the Filmation cartoons led to the development of the Super Friends...they're direct predecessors, and they are just as canon as the Super Friends series and Super Friends comic book. They are not a secondary source.
The only other comics that are canon in my mind, are the comics that were referenced in the Super Friends comics, this includes Super Amigos and Super Powers, because they are part of the Superfriends comics. But everything else doesn't belong. It's possible that Vril Dox is Brainiac's adopted son, in the article you can see what I put. If you go by the Pre-Crisis comics, he did indeed adopt him, Post-Crisis, he's just a clone. I don't buy the fact that he's a clone, but there's little to go by. But whether he's a son or adopted son, that's still a son right? It doesn't matter to me.
I think the stuff that complicates things most, is if we use Earth-One material that contradicts the Super Friends material. Because it is a Superfriends wiki right? And in this instance I can't think of any particulars but I don't know. I'm not saying they always do, but in some cases I think they might.
As for the name of the planet. It's Colu, at least to the natives, but Mega is an alternative name, just like Terra is an alternative name for Earth. It was actually referred to by many names in the comics before they finally settled with the permanent name. Mega may be a different name, but it's not a different planet. I see no reason to say that the Brainiac from Filmation is of a separate continuity just because the name of the planet was different back then. Other wise you'd have to do the same for every subsequent comic book appearance of Brainiac up until the issue they finally named it Colu. (and I'm not saying that's what you did)
I see what you're saying about E. Nelson Bridwell, but I think it's a little excessively restrictive. Just my opinion, I don't want you to take that the wrong way, but I'd like to ask you a hypothetical question. Let's pretend that this year or next, a new series is going to come out. It's gonna be called Time Masters, which is based on Rip Hunter and all those characters from the old DC Comics book.
Now you might watch season one of the show...and as you know he travels through time, so the show has no set in stone time period setting. Let's say the first episode he's in the 37th century, and then in the second or third episode he goes to the present day...which would be circa 2020 or 2021; And maybe by episode four or five, he ends up in the year 1990. Now that he's in 1990, he meets the Super Powers Team. They are clearly the same characters that we remembered from their last appearance in 1985, but it's five years later, so a few things have changed. Maybe, just maybe...certain characters...like Harley Quinn or Doomsday or other so-called "Post-Crisis" characters appear. Writers and producers of the show make it known at Comic-Con or whatever that the show is indeed set in the Superfriends universe. What would that mean to you? Would you just say "Nope, we can't have Post-Crisis characters in this continuity." So you dismiss it as canon and decide to name it Earth-1C or some crazy thing like that, just so that we could keep it separate from Bridwell's vision?
Another thing, what was his vision? That Super Friends was set on Earth-One? For one thing, it isn't, and another thing, even though it's a world very similar to Earth-One, there are subtle differences. Saying that Post-Crisis characters couldn't be a part of this continuity because it contradicts the comics is silly. Of course it contradicts the comics, it's a different universe, that's why there's a contradiction. Now to be fair, you didn't say anything about so-called Post-Crisis stuff not being canon. I only brought that up, because you have before.
You told me one time you was going to mark Harley Quinn for deletion. I even had it sourced as I recall. Could be wrong though. But tt's from a Super Powers comic. It's not Earth-1A though, as you can see in the article, but it's still valid. And just because we "currently" have no information about a Harley Quinn of Earth-1A, doesn't mean she wasn't on that Earth. We just never saw her.
For example, the 1960s Batman TV series came out during the Pre-Crisis era as well, yet in the last few years they made direct to video animated movies set in that same universe, set in the 1960s, and they introduced Harley Quinn. She wasn't there during the show's original three season run, but it wasn't because she was a so-called Post Crisis character, it's because she wasn't created yet.
Anyway, I apologize for writing a freaking book about this subject here, but I just don't always know if you understand what I'm saying. And please, I'd really like to know what your opinion of that hypothetical Time Masters series is. If it really happened and it was made, would you view it as canon or not?
I agree with that list as being canon and Earth-1A, but I believe they should all be treated as equals. I don't ad anything else from outside of canon. Now I have made pages for characters that were made into Super Powers figures but never shown in anything else, but those were pretty insignificant.
Let me make sure that I understand. Are you saying that even if the writers and producers of Time Masters came out and said that their show was set on Earth-1A, that you couldn't except that? That's what I was trying to ask you before.
EDIT: By the way, the only reason I mentioned Time Masters, was because it hadn't been done as a TV show, and it's the type of show that can be set in multiple eras, including the present (the 2020s in other words) where as a straightforward Super Friends/Super Powers series would be a period piece. I think that in order to bring the SF/SP into modern television again, a time travel story would be good, at least as a backdoor pilot. Then we can spinoff into its' own series. And remember, when a person travels through time, they are not usually travelling through the multiverse.
ANOTHER EDIT: Another thing I had thought of, time travel isn't totally necessary though, as in recent years Warner Bros revisited the Batman TV series and it was just set in the 1960s without any scenes from the present acting as a wraparound presenting the movie in flashback at all. That's fine too, I was just saying that if I was going to revive the Superfriends, that's how I'd do it, a time travel story or at least a flashback, so the audience knows that when the show flashes back to the time of the Superfriends, it is indeed thirty years in the past or so.
No, I really don't understand. You used the same words. I feel like you're dodging my question. You said time travel or dimension hopping or something to that nature. That's what's confusing me. If someone travels back in time, to the time of the Super Friends show, let's say, to the year 1980, so that's during season five, then you're saying that wouldn't be canon?
What I'm trying to explain, is that it would definitely beyond a shadow of a doubt canon, as it would be the Super Friends Universe, the show would be set in the Super Friends Universe. That's what I'm trying to say. What is it about time travel that takes that away? Superfriends has had time travel in it before, I don't understand? And more than that, I'm more interested in what you think if one of the producers or writers said: "Time Masters is set in the Super Friends Universe." That's what concerns me. Usually when a producer or writer comes out and says something to the public, then it's official. But if you're trying to tell me that you won't agree unless it's something you personally view as a "bonified attempt," rather than just them saying so or having references that tie it directly to the show or whatever, I think that's absolutely 100 percent absurd.
You'd be restricting any potential future material to this wiki, and it wouldn't grow passed what has already been released. Sure, we have a lot of stuff to work on, but if any new Super Friends material was released then we wouldn't be able to expand it. This is my view, just because the show ended in 1985, doesn't mean the universe ended. I believe that future material could still be made and even with a lot of the older voice actors returning. The dead ones, obviously not, but still, I believe that there's a good chance more stuff could be released in the future. Several years ago, I might have not believed it, but since they started bringing out more material, a whole new wave of classic stuff could come back.
Take the Batman animated films. Do you consider them canon with the original Batman series? I do. And then even though Justice League Unlimited went off the air about 15 years ago or so, they recently had a movie called "Justice League vs. The Fatal Five," which was set in that universe again. Now like I said, I'm one of those guys, I thought that once all of those franchises ran their course, they'd be gone, and never come back. Like, we're in a new era for DC movies as well, we had Ben Affleck as Batman recently, so we don't expect to see Michael Keaton as Batman again do we? Well...guess again. I don't know if you watch the DC superhero shows on THE CW, (if you do, and you haven't seen it yet, stop reading this because it's a major spoiler) but they had a five part crossover called CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS this season and they even show the Michael Keaton Batman universe...it was Earth-89. Also, they've had the Flash of Earth-90, which was the original Flash TV series universe, and they even had a cameo from Tom Welling as Clark Kent of his universe. And yes, it was the same universe we saw in the TV show Smallville. That's just some of the characters that have been shown.
What I'm trying to say is, please don't limit the potential that any DC animated/liveaction/television/film franchises can have, they could come back in style whenever somebody thinks its' a good idea. And you know what, I'm betting that if and when that happens, the amount of wiki editors would skyrocket. We probably wouldn't be the only regulars at that point, because it would be a brand new show and there'd be a lot of excitement for newbies to get in there and help us out. Which I believe we do need help out. Just with what we have; there's a daunting task ahead of us, but I like to look at it as something I do for fun. If I start to try and focus on something that makes me bored after a while, then it just becomes a chore. And I don't want to do that.
Since I broke my ankle I've actually had a ton of free time, but I also am a regular editor on Memory Alpha too. And with CBS All Access, there's constantly new material to be added there too. I really just try and find something that looks fun, and then I pounce it. I mean I make the page...or edit the page. Another thing I should mention, as long as Memory Alpha has been around, and as many editors as there are, I still find stuff to do from older episodes and movies. But anyway, that's just my concern and all, and I don't blame you if you didn't read this whole thing, I realize it's rediculously long. But this is something I'm genuinely concerned with. I mean, let's face it, right now, we have no new Superfriends material, and maybe we never will, so it's better just to focus on what we have now, but I'm only concerned because I fear that you wouldn't allow it or you would protest it or whatever.
Oh MY GOD!!
HAHAHAHAHAHA!! LOL...okay, yes I guess I did miss your point. Jesus Christ!! I had no idea what you were talking about!! That's hilarious.
Well that makes me feel better, I was really worried that you were like some crazed fanboy, like Star Trek fans that worship Gene Roddenberry and consider every thing after TNG to be non-canon. You could see my concern right? I mean, there's a lot of material after TNG and what if Memory Alpha only covered that. That would suck.
No, I knew you weren't crazy and that I had to be misunderstanding you, I just had to make sure. Sorry to waste both of our time today, God knows we could've been editing stuff instead of going back and forth.
Forgive my constant probing.
That actually explains a lot. I was wondering why you had a page for Benn Blanx. I'm assuming that's why. I remember that wraparound sequence, the had a full-size statue of various superheroes as I recall, like a clean-shaven Green Arrow as I recall.
Okay, that restores my faith. Thanks.
Yes I really do enjoy Picard. As for Discovery, it got better with season two, but really only in a superficial way. There's really only one character on that entire show that I like, and that's Saru. Tilly's all right, but even she is just too much after a while. She does seem like a real person though, and that's why I say that.
Michael Burnham is absolutely ridiculous. Even the actress seems to be acting during her interviews, she doesn't seem like a real person and I can barely stand her. It doesn't help that she's the main character either. She really is a good actress though, clearly, she played Sasha in "The Walking Dead" and I liked her in that, but not this. With season two however, things improve a WHOLE lot, but only on a story level, there were some characters that were introduced that were interesting, but mostly it was just the story that was better. They brought in Christopher Pike. That was the best thing about season 2. Also we got to finally see a D7-class battle cruiser and a few other things to remind you that in a few years it's gonna be in the TOS era, because that was a definite need for the show, since it was just visually way different than TOS.
But yeah, by the end of the season I'd say you could say "Yeah, I guess that makes sense how that's before TOS," but in the end, the characters are the same and I don't like them. But I'm hoping season 3 is better. It already looks as though it will be, I suppose. But who knows? When Picard's over it's either season 3 of Discovery or season 1 of Lower Decks, which is the new (and only second) animated series of Star Trek. I'm pretty excited about that, I think I will like that show better than Discovery.
But yes Picard is great. Of course I love that, I just don't like that there's only ten episodes for season 1 and it feels like we've barely started. There's only four episodes left!! Geez, that's the way TV is these days and it's just mean! Oh well...I just hope Patrick Stewart lives long enough to do many more seasons!
It's all good, I wasn't worried.
Well...my first thought was that that comic doesn't make any sense. (I've actually read that a long time ago) then I realized. It's called Wayne Tower, not Wayne Building. They called it the Wayne Building in one episode of the Super Friends, and it clearly was suppose to be Wayne Tower, but that name wasn't usually used.
As I recall, it was during that period when the Wayne Foundation was used as the main headquarters for Wayne Enterprises, and the Wayne Tower was used for something else...not sure what or why. If you go by this comic which is part of this storyarch, Batcave II is located under the Wayne Foundation, and it's quite clear they are two completely different buildings. The architecture of Wayne Tower is very Art Deco while Wayne Foundation is very Retro Modern, complete with the penthouse and a large tree running through most of floors. (retro modern is might not be the right term though...but anyway).
I don't mind what you call the article though, I was just letting you know from Earth-One perspective. If the Super Friends comic contradicts that, and we're certain it does, that's what we should go by. But I don't think it does necessarily, because "Wayne Building" could just be a general term for any Wayne facility.
EDIT: Another thought I had, and you probably had already thought of this, is that we could write down in the notes section the discrepancy, assuming there turns out being one, or we can even say something like, "The Wayne Building Batcave was a cave that was; according to one source, located under the Wayne Building, although it may have been under the Wayne Foundation as well." or something like that...I don't know.
I've done some further research and what I was able to uncover is that you are probably right, the Wayne Building is the same building that the Wayne Foundation was located, it wasn't a separate facility as I had always envisioned for some strange reason, but it's in the same place. Apparently it was remodeled to look the way it looked in that issue of the Super Friends comic shown here.
This of course is in complete contradiction to the cartoon itself, unless we're to believe that it was remodeled back to the Wayne Tower appearance after that? I don't know, who really cares, you were right though, it's the same building.
I realize I'm about a month late on this but I only just now noticed, but why did you redirect Black Lighting to Black Vulcan?
The reason his page was made was because he appeared in Super Amigos # 22 among many other things. He is clearly a different character than Black Vulcan, his super powers are totally different for one (Black Lightning can't fly or travel through time).
Also he was in Cromy's Superfriends card game and a number of other products made by Cromy. He exists on both Earth-One and Earth-1A. I'm sure you already know the story of Black Vulcan, he was just made up for the cartoon since they couldn't use Black Lightning.
Also, Earth-Three redirects to Universe of Evil now too. I think that's silly, because they are clearly completely different Earths. They show no similarity other than the fact that characters that were normally good are actually bad.
Also, Earth-Three is a legit universe related to Superfriends. Check this and scroll down, you'll see an image of the Superfriends from that story. I wouldn't have made a page if it wasn't connected to Superfriends.
I apologize about the Phantom Stranger, but I don't under stand the image. As I understand, the image says it's from Phantom Stranger # 10? I'm assuming from December 1970 cover date issue.
But what I don't understand is what that has to do with Superfriends. I'm not saying it has nothing to do with it, I just found no indication of it, and yes I should have consulted you first. But I don't understand what the "Super Friends Universe" source is.
The Phantom Stranger image I replaced it with, and sorry I shouldn't have done that, was from JLA # 110 (March 1974), a legitimately canon source in my mind because of its' Super Friends connection. That's why I put that there.
As for the whole "canon totem pole" you are talking about, I see what you're saying, but I don't see why that matters. I made a Super Amigos and Super Powers template to distinguish characters and pages like that. And the only reason I actually did that was because you alone didn't consider them alpha canon. It's clear we don't agree on what's canon and what isn't, but whether we accept them or not, they are still there, right? Part of the franchise in their own way. And deserving their own page. Yes, I remember when someone put that Earth-Three stuff on the Universe of Evil page and I know why you did all that, but my point was they are not the same universe.
To be fair though, even though it is just a redirect, that's better than not having anything at all, so I ain't gonna make a big deal over something like this. As for Black Lightning being the doppelgänger of Black Vulcan, that's just conjecture...it would be reasonable conjecture, but only if you wanted to discount the Superamigos comics and games from canon. And in my mind, that's going too far.
PS: I also wanted to mention that I know some of my stuff isn't sourced very well, and that I realize, but those are mostly if not only pages from a good while back. Most pages I've made in recent years are pretty clear. I've noticed some pages from the last couple years that I goofed on, but if you find a link that you're like: "What does this link have to do with the Superfriends," if you go to the bottom of the page where it says "My Tools" and click on "What Links Here" and then type the name of the page that you are curious about, there's a good chance you'll find a page or two that links to it and provides more details. Like for example, I see you edited the key page. Well, on that page, it shows the comic that image came from in the reference footnote section. What it doesn't say is why.
You see, the image is from JLA # 110, the same comic that Phantom Stranger image was from. But why that's relevant to the Super Friends universe was not explained in the article (which is something I need to remember to do more of). But, if you checked that issue to the "What Links Here" page, then you'll see that Here Come TV's Super-Friends! is one of the pages that links to it, and therefore, that's its' Superfriends connection. Granted, that should have been put in the darn article, but I'm an idiot. As for the Phantom Stranger, the only reason I did that was because I didn't understand (and still don't, please explain and show me where it's written) that it was part of Superfriends' canon.
I realized that there was a lot of images throughout this wiki that I couldn't figure out canon-wise, so I gave up. That's probably the only image that I changed. I didn't change the Captain Marvel and Marvel Family pages which I'm confused because we have the old images in that from 40s Fawcett Comics, again, I fail to see how that has to do with the Superfriends. Surely the Filmation cartoons are more canon than those, right? Anyway, I left it alone because there's a lot of pages like that on this wiki and I don't like it, but there it is nonetheless.
Re:Whatever it is we're talking about
I realize all that stuff, and indeed, the only thing I'm not on the same page as you with is the treatment of the comics as more canon than Filmation cartoons. I'm not saying that I see the Filmation cartoons as more canon, but rather equally so.
I understand the time that went into it, I've also wasted years of my life on this wiki. I'm a little drunk right now and I apologize if I sound bitchy, but this is what I'm trying to say. I'm totally cool with you using Earth-One information when it applies to the SF comics. But do you seriously think that I would have uploaded a different image if I thought that Phantom Stranger was a non-canon character? That makes no sense, if anything I'd have been questioning why the page was there to begin with.
The image page says where it came from, and I already told you. It was from a legit Superfriends source. I never claimed that it was conjecture. I really don't have a clue what you might be talking about. I guess what my question is, did Phantom Stranger # 10 get referenced in a Superfriends comic? If it did, then that's fine, that's where my confusion was, not his place in the SF universe itself. If it wasn't referenced, then why do we have that image? You've told me time and time again about you and Bridwell. I already know that. But if he wanted it to be Earth-One then I'd say he wanted Black Lightning to be part of it. But that's all beside the point. Also, you often talk about "Pre-Crisis" and "Post-Crisis" as if they're have something to do with this, but those are comic book terms, they really have no meaning in the Superfriends universe. You asked me if Harley Quinn is Pre-Crisis? She has nothing to do with the Crisis. So she's neither Pre-Crisis or Post-Crisis. Her character was introduced in Batman: The Animated Series, which was a universe that had nothing to do with the Crisis. When did the Crisis happen? In 1985? It depends on your perspective. To the Legion of Super-Heroes it happened in the 30th century. To the heroes of World War II (esopecially on Earth-Two) it happened in the '40s. That's what makes no sense about the arguement. Are you gonna tell me that since the Crisis happened in 1985 that the 40th century as seen in the Superfriends cartoon is set in Post-Crisis continuity? That makes no sense. You see what I'm saying? Harley Quinn had nothing to do with the Crisis.
Everything you need to know about Harley is in that article. It's not from any comic book perspective. Only that which was established in the Super Powers and 66 comics. (two different universes) There's no point in adding information from BTAS or her comic book counterpart, because that's what the DC Database is for. And there's no Earth-One info available. Also the page has nothing to do with her Earth-1A information since, so far...there's none available. But even if she doesn't exist on Earth-1A, she does exist on other Earths. So what the hell is your beef with her? The information is all there.
Listen, I ain't gotta lot of hobbies. This first it was my broken ankle, now the corona virus. This is one of the few things I do for fun. But the fun is fading. It's cabin fever or something. But I really don't understand what the problem is. ALso, Bridwell might have "reigned supreme" while he was writing the comic, but eventually the comic ended, and his input ended there. It's like Gene Rodenberry...he didn't create Star Trek....he co-created it, with DC Fontana, Gene L. Coon, Robert Justman and so on...it was a collaboration but he took credit for it. Just like Bob Kane, he didn't create Batman at all, he just had the basic idea, the name and even a costume that didn't end up being in the final product. Bill Finger created Batman. But anyway what I'm trying to say, is that a writer's input goes as far as it does until it doesn't. It shouldn't dictate the way we view Filmation, or any other material that "might" contradict it. And I say "might" because much is left to interpretation. It's not wild to think that a Black Lightning and Black Vulcan couldn't exist in the same universe, and even if they are from different universes, once again, what makes Black Lightning not deserve a page. Actually now that I think about it, what does that Black Lightning have to do with Filmation anyway?
Oh sorry, I just recalled, we were talking about the Captain Marvel images...you said you fished them from some comics that were not SF connected. That's what I thought. That's what I don't understand. I don't have a major problem with that, but ONLY when there's no canon pictures. And by canon, I mean something that is shown in any SF referenced comic book, SF comic itself, DC shows of the era, or anything else that has any sort of Superfriends label. THat's how I do it. Sure at times we're gonna find that there may be no picture for a certain character who was referenced so all we can do is grab a picture from a comic that was never referenced in Superfriends, but only as a last resort.
Yes, it's been a crazy world. I live in Wichita and you wouldn't think that the disease could make it clear to Kansas, because we're geographically in the middle of the USA, yet for some reason, people are getting sick and some are dying.
But more than that, people have been terrible Human beings. Stealing food and toilet paper. I even seen people on my Facebook talking about how they stole food from somebody. These are people I thought were friends. Now I agree people hoard to much, but that's just going to far, people are pulling guns on people and stealing their stuff right in the parking lot of the grocery store.
I'm glad I'm not working right now because of my ankle, but unfortunately I go to the orthopedic doctor tomorrow and I'm likely gonna have to go back into that mad world sometime next week or next month. I've actually recovered quite a bit, but I'm not looking forward to going back. I've had to deal with people before everyone went crazy and they were bad before. That's just the retail world.
I hope that things get better quick over there and that you are doing fine there in Florida. I know that the coastal states got hit the worst prior to closing down overseas flight. Yeah the social distancing has been going on here too. We're only expected to leave for the essentials, like going to the doctor (not for a checkup, for real problems) and buying groceries and other needs. But it's not mandatory yet but I think it might be soon. I've heard that at least one of our comic shops is still open, could be more but I don't know because I've been inside since December.
Oh, have you ever went to the Super Friends Wiki Facebook page? I just checked it out the other day and I saw that Will Rodgers "liked" the page. I don't know if you're on Facebook or not but I thought you might be interested in checking that out, he's part of a Super Friends group that I recently joined and Tom Cook also joined. Tom Cook sells his artwork too, he'll draw you a picture that's signed by him of anything Superfriends related or He-Man, Thundarr, anything that he had worked on back in the day.
Anyway, I guess it makes sense now if you say that everything about characters that Bridwell references are canon. I didn't realize that was what you meant. I don't have a problem with that. And if you want to you can revert the Phantom Stranger image. You see, I saw that you had done a lot of similar stuff on other pages, Phantom Stranger was the first I tried to fix, and as far as I recall the only one I tried to fix, because I realized several other pages were like that as well, so I was like...well what's the point? Anyway I'm not giving up man and I hate taking a chunk outta my heart about stuff. I'm a man of many problems and this wiki is just a small, small part of it. Let's just say this is a problem I'd love to keep. But things suck right now a lot. And they have before Mr. COVID-19 invaded. Even before I broke my ankle. My family is super screwed up. My immediate family are pretty good to me. My nieces are mostly good, but one of them is a drug runner and she whores herself out and makes more money then any of us do. She called me a few months ago to tell me how she was gang raped and it actually made me cry. That was when she lived in Texas. Now she came back to Wichita but she's still doing the same stuff. She's just a stupid as her mom. She tried to get me to come pick her up because she had a flat and no spare tire. But I'm alone here! And I couldn't leave all by myself with a broken ankle. It was in the middle of the night. I called my mom, and she did actually answer, but she told me she wasn't gonna go get her because she can't see at night to drive. And I was like, well yeah I guess you can't. But anyway, I don't why I'm saying all this stuff here....lol...Jesus, I'll shut up now. Sadly that's not even the half of it.
But I'll shut up now I swear and get back on topic, anyway you asked me about the Crisis on Infinite Earths, 3 page, I have no problem with the comma in there, I didn't check the main page as I should have. But as for the reason I wrote "Super Friends" instead of Superamigos, was because to my knowledge, most of our readers are English speaking Americans, and Superamigos literally translates from Spanish or Portuguese to "Super Friends." But If you think we should change it I don't mind, that's just my line of thinking. Also, the fact that the date shows the year and everything makes it pretty clear to most people that it's not the regular SF comic. Then all a person has to do is click on the link, and they'll see what it is themselves.
As for using the month, days and years, I think that's a little monotonous, and most wiki's don't do that. In fact none that I personally no of. If you absolutely feel it's necessary, then okay...but it's going to take a lot of extra time for me. In fact some things, we don't have an exact date for. Not to mention that the cover date shown on comics is always different than the actual release date. (usually it's three months before the cover date, but this all depends on certain factors) Anyway, that's pretty much my take on that, I'm willing to bend though, but I just feel it's a little too much. Now every page I've ever made in the last few years or so at least has the year, unless the page is incomplete. Anyway, thanks for getting back to me, I actually wasn't sure if you would. I'm not planning on giving up just yet.
Thank you very much my friend. It's just one of those things. Everybody has something. Sorry to hear about your job man. Hopefully it just keeps getting better.--Noah Tall (talk) 15:23, April 2, 2020 (UTC)
Hi, I saw you have been doing a lot of work to the Superman page, and I noticed you had this guy Ron Ely missing. I couldn't find a better picture than this, so unless you can find a better one, you might want to use this.
I'll probably see if I can fish my Superboy DVDs later on so I can get a better quality picture but this is okay for now I guess.
Anyway thought you'd like to know. This image is from the Superboy episode "The Road to Hell" Part Two. (one of my favorites)
Good job Supes. And yes, that picture is from the Superboy episode "The Road to Hell" Part Two, but he isn't Superboy, he's Superman. He's from a different Earth. That's why I showed you it.
Obviously I noticed you didn't have John Haymes Newton or Gerard Christopher on the page but I assumed you were gonna put them on the Superboy page. But this guy is actually Superman, not Superboy.
He doesn't have a costume in that show, but he did say he used to wear it. By the way, Superboy is actually my favorite live action Superman Family series, just so you know...it's lightyears better than Smallville in my personal opinion. It's better than Lois & Clark too. I think you'd like it. It's a show that has the element a lot of shows these days seem to be missing.
Lex Luthor in that show is also my favorite version of the character probably. He's so psychotic. My all time favorite episode of the show is the two parter "Know Thine Enemy." A fantastic Luthor story. Absolutely mind blowingly cool. Metallo is in the show and so is Bizarro. Great, great episodes. Season 1 sucks though...I mean really bad. But season two onward is great. As for Wonder Woman, I'm not very sure what you mean, but I do know that some of the time, the comics from the seventies shifted between Earth-One and Earth-Two...one issue you'd be reading an Earth-One story, and then the next twelve would be Earth-Two. I remember one that crossed over and then the focus of the entire story shifted to Earth-Two's Wonder Woman. It was weird actually. Anyone reading the comic would have never known unless they had read the previous issue.
Not that I'm trying to change your opinion, I did like Smallville, but it rarely felt like a Superman show to me. I understand that it was supposed to be a sort of "pre-Superman" show, so not really a Superman show and I get that, but even the tone was far less heroic. It was good, don't get me wrong, and if it wasn't for that there probably wouldn't be anymore liveaction superhero shows on TV, but I loved the Superboy show because it had a classic Supermanish feel...you know what I mean? I felt that Lois and Clark just didnt have enough action in it, and Clark and Superman were too much the same, I mean I didn't feel that Clark Kent was a disguise at all in that show.
But overall, I felt it had the Superman tone more so than Smallville did, but I didn't feel that it made it a better show than Smallville at all. It's actually harder for me to compare it to Smallville since it didn't have nearly as many episodes. Superboy didn't either, but they were far higher quality stories, and the only reason Superboy got canceled was because production on Lois and Clark couldn't start with it still being on, and DC Comics was more interested in that. But anyway that's just my opinion.
And yes, I actually read the Superman Annual before, but I had to read it again so I could make these pages and stuff. And I was able to learn a lot more than I did when I was a kid. Or at least remembered. I actually felt the emotions this time, it is a very strong story. When I saw the wind pick up and start to swallow Van-El and Kal's dream was just about to end I thought about my boy and what it would be like losing him. You just kinda have to be a grown man to understand this stuff. I was a kid the last time I read that. It's powerful stuff and I feel it still holds out. You can understand why Superman almost killed Mongul. As soon as he snapped out of it, he didn't even pay attention to the fact that Batman was connected to the Black Mercy, he was just like...MOONNNGGUUULL!!! Loved that.
Mary McDonald Lewis
I figured this would happen eventually. And it's no big deal, but I am pretty sure this is one of those Victoria Vetri as Isis on Star Trek kind of things, but my gut tells me it's BJ Ward that does her voice in the Superman TV show. I know what both Wikipedia, IMDB and several other sources say otherwise, but I believe they are wrong. In fact, I remember when they said differently, certain websites use to say it was BJ Ward, but for some reason they were changed in the last few years.
But there is no mistaking her voice. Unless Lewis is capable of mimicking BJ Ward's voice to an exact...I would bet my life it's not her. Actually even the actor that did the voice of Martin Stein in season 9, I'm almost positive he was uncredited, because I know who did his voice. (can't remember his name but I'm pretty sure it wasn't who was supposedly credited for it). First of all, they only guess, they don't know who it really was because the credits don't show the name of the character, just the actor.
But I'm fairly certain Wonder Woman is BJ Ward in the Superman cartoon, just like the final season of Superfriends. Compare this, which is her voice in the Superman cartoon, to this, which is from season 9. Now I could be nuts, but they sound the same to me. The reason I say I'm "fairly certain" is not because I think I may be wrong on it being a different actress for both shows, but because it is vaguely possible it's Mary Lewis that does her voice in both shows. Maybe because people just assumed it was BJ Ward for reasons I'm not sure. But I've heard her voice in other shows so I'm pretty sure it's her (although it's been a while). I only bring up that possibility because BJ Ward is credited in season 8, but I don't think she was credited in season 9. Clearly she isn't Wonder Woman in season 8, but I suppose it's possible Lewis could have been her voice actress in Super Powers Team. Anyway, not that it's that big of a deal but I thought maybe you'd be better at that kinda research than me.
As for Martin Stein, I know Olan Soule did his voice in season 8, but it wasn't him in season 9. I'm usuaully pretty good a judging voices and I'm almost certain it's not Ken Sansom, my money's on Henry Beckman. The only way I'd think otherwise is if he was able to duplicate his voice exactly, like better than Kevin Palak doing Jack Nicholson. But that's just something I think we should research someday. Just a thought.
You Son, Wow, Didn't Know
I didn't know he was you son, that's funny. I honestly don't even remember what we talked about. As for me being more "loose" when it comes to canon. I don't take that personally, I know you wasn't meaning it in a bad way, but I'm not sure I agree totally. You see there's somethings I don't do. Like you said, with Phantom Stranger...to me what's canon is what is shown in the story itself. I don't really look to other material throughout Earth-One to write about. Like for example, I just edited the Mongul page and all the info is from that one story. (interstingly enough that was his final Pre-Crisis appearance) But anyway, I didn't write about his first appearance or anything like that, because for all I know it's different in the Super Friends Universe.
Not that it's that important. Actually if you are interested in what policies I personally follow hang on I'll show you. Click here. Anyway, it's nice to know your boy is editing on here. My boy doesn't give a rat's bikini about the Super Friends Wiki, and he rarely will even watch Superfriends with me, but he LOVES Teen Titans Go. I suppose he has seen most of the Superfriends episodes though, but he still has a long way to go. And he won't watch the Christopher Reeve Superman and Michael Keaton Batman movies. He gets too bored. But he's eight...although he'll be nine tomorrow. Wow...I can't believe that. ANyway...I can't remember what we were talking about...oh yeah, I just looked at the Wonder Woman page and it's nice. I haven't read all the way yet. Actually that's how I saw whatshername in there. Mary Lewis I mean.
I'm not sure I understand the question. When did we think Wonder Woman came to the US? I assumed it was the early sixties already.
And what about Marvin are we talking about?
I personally don't see how it could be 1970, considering how young she appears, but I read something you wrote about her being only physically young or something like 16 or 17? I really didn't quite understand and maybe that's why.
Additionally, as for the age of Marvin, no way could have been 13 in the show. I had adjusted the timeline so that he was a junior in High School (16 or 17) in season one and a senior in high school in the comic book series (17 or 18). This was the only way to feasibly link the comic series with The All-New Super Friends Hour and so on.
Hi, I wanted to let you know, I just wanted to see if you'd check out the Jr. SuperFriends page. I hope you like it like that, if you don't that's fine, I just didn't really like how we had the Hall of Justice as the main picture rather than the characters. I understand that the image was meant to communicate that the purpose of the Superfriends was to train Jr. Superfriends to be superheroes, but since there's no pictures of them I thought that might be a bit confusing. For me there wasn't any confusion, I just felt the article wasn't really focused on the right thing.
That's just my opinion and if you think it should be reverted back that's up to you especially since you made the page to begin with, I just feel that the article should be more about the Junior Superfriends than the Hall of Justice and the purpose of the SUperfriends. However I do think that image would be good to use in the actuall JLA page, although I kept that image there in the Hall of Jstice gallery in that Jr. SF page.
Anyway, do what you wanna do, but I just wanted to give you my reason so you wouldn't think I'm trying to undo all the work you've done that I do much appreciate. I also like that image I put in there because there's really probably not another place where you could find both groups of Jr. Superfriends together like that, except maybe in the comic book issue where they return. (but they aren't wearing the same clothes)
Right on, I'll check out that Wonder Woman page. It was a redlink on my talk. I couldn't make heads or tails of it. So I'll just go to the page. Thank you sir.
I apologize if you are already aware of this and are working on it, but I noticed in the Cheetah page you have that Hero/Secret Identity thing you can click on. But in the case of Cheetah, shouldn't it be Villain/Secret Identity?