Timeline Follow-up Again
I received your follow up emails. I believe the answer is yes to your questions. If we work backwards from the Crisis, the age of the characters and the SF comics as our guide, it has to line up the way I worked it out on the paper. So if your cool with that lets streamline the wiki to follow those dates. Sound good?
I would say Wonder Woman os fine. But we may need to revist Superman and Batman. Most sources say that Bruce was 26 when he donned the cape and cowl. Yet that is never confirmed in the SF universe. We should however keep the date he puts on the cape and cowl the way it is. Also for Superman it's all up to how old we think he should be in 1957 when the Phantom zoners go back in time. I was thinking he was more like 14 or 15 not 17.
Birthdates, part 2
Understood. Back then, 9th grade was included. So lets say he was a young 14 in 55. This would make him 16 in 57. Beyond that, consider two things: One consider that Filmation is not primary canon. It's secondary. And then second, consider the age of Bruce and Clark in 80's. So maybe retool Superboy/Superman, but I'd keep Bruce the way it is. But at the end of the day, you can make the choice.
color coded info boxes
Hey man. Just fyi.. the info boxes for everyone's profile is color-coded. Like the Legion of Doom all has a specific color. And all villains are also Gray. So when you make a the name a hyperlink you have to change that and it messes up the color-coding throughout the wiki. I have noticed that other Pages do that but it's generally links to the disambiguation page when it does. On this wiki we place links like that on the top of pages so we can avoid messing up the color coding. Make sense? --Superman Fan (talk) 23:06, December 4, 2019 (UTC)
- Understood. If you did want it that way, we'd just have to come up with a new plan.
- --Superman Fan (talk) 00:17, December 6, 2019 (UTC)
Hey man. After watching the first few episodes of the SF, I got the impression the that the United States Government Building and the World Weather Headquarters were basically the same government building that housed different offices and functions .. with one branch being in Gotham (Too Hot to Handle) and one being in Miami (The Weather Maker). If so, I;d like to combine them. Thoughts?
Hey man. I wanted to let you know that I have been reading through the intros to the episodes in season one and I wanted to tell you that they are excellent!!
Sheesh! Sorry to hear that. Let me know how it goes.
Back at it
Good to see you barely skipped up beat. FYI.. I was feeling nostalgic the other day and I looked back at our very first edits. It looks like you started exactly one year before I did ... 11 years ago!! That's awesome! And I still enjoy it. Its good to have someone remain consistent along with you through the journey.
Ha! I know, right? funny.
Well I'm glad your mobile. Somewhat.
Looking forward to the next ten...
Holy Time Warp Batman!!
That's a real bummer man. Sorry to hear that. From someone who hurt his back pretty badly 10 years ago (one of the reasons I had the time to start working on this wiki), I can sympathize. I'm sure you'll be up and at it in few weeks.
Ya! totally crazy that I've been doing this so long. And that I was a child of the 80's .. go Stranger Things!
I'm a bonafied geek! And I work in construction too!
On a different note, I've color coordinated all super hero teams. So the JSA additions are great, but they are not part of the color coding. I get that you want the link at the top, but it doesn't work. That's why i started putting links at the top of the page.
Also, how do you know for sure that the Hall of Justice was in Metropolis when Season 2 started? I've seen the episode numerous times and have notes. None of which say its in Metropolis. What I learned from reading Issue #14 of the Super Friends (comic book), is that in the Earth-1A universe, Metropolis is 'right over the bridge' from Gotham. So why do we have to say that it was relocated to Metropolis? Why can't we say that it was slightly remodeled for Season 2 forward?
Thanks for the clarification.
Hey man. I was editing the Mars page and I saw your blurb about Mars being terraformed. What is your source?
Thanks for the Coney Island and Mars update.
As far as the video goes I'm not familiar with it, but I would save it to your personal collection if you can. It's cool.
RE: Background Information Section
Hey man. Looking for your input on the subsections under the background info. Take a look at the Atom page. I made those little drop-down menus for each the section. My question to you is what colors would you suggest? I like this Sleek silver and white look and it matches the background image pretty good. But the Super Friends also have color to them. My problem though is that too much color makes it look kitschy. Thoughts? --Superman Fan (talk) 17:10, February 18, 2020 (UTC)
Hey man. I was hoping to talk to you about the overall objective of the page. Now, as admin you can chase all the rabbits you want, but after 11 years plus of working on this page its still not complete. Meaning episodes and the SF comics are not complete. That's on me too. I think we, as a team would focus on the 'big picture' and try to complete what it is your working on now - the episodes. My personal objective is three fold lately ... they are .. in no particular order ... update most images with DVD quality images ... update all main character bios ... and complete the SF Comics. So , my request and encouragement is to pick an object that fits the big-picture for a while so we can get overall objective behind us, then focus on the rabbits. Make sense? Thanks again for all your hard work and diligence to make this wiki, not only the best SuperFriends wiki, but perhaps and good source of DC info too. --Superman Fan (talk) 14:23, February 22, 2020 (UTC)
Hey man. On the Computer Tyrants page your addition needs to be cited. The bio that I had originally was the only pre-crisis Earth One info we had on the computer tyrants. If U want to add post-crisis information you can certaibly do that but it needs to be explain as such and cited. Thanks. --Superman Fan (talk) 03:41, February 26, 2020 (UTC)
re: Computer Tyrants
I use the background information to provide known history for the various characters. Use Earth-One as a basis or foundtion for that history because E Nelson Bridwell did. He did his best to tie in Earth-One history of the SuperFriends Universe in the comic books. So I follow his lead. As far as filmation goes that's completely fine. But it's a secondary source to the SF TV show and the SF comic-book book. Beyond that I do my best to cite the source. Which are generally pre-crisis sources. For example in The Brainiac page I was very clear that according to Earth-One history Brainiac son was adopted. Also the planet of origin are called different things in different Series so I cited that as well. On the Atom page youll see that I work in Earth-One, Filmation and Earth-1A history. See also the Green Arrow and Toyman page as well. Also check out to Felix Faust. Generally speaking post-crisis sources are not relevant to this universe, but in his case i added some of that background on his page. In any event my point is that I cite everything. Which means that I read all those comic books for the most part and watch any relevant those episodes. --Superman Fan (talk) 12:06, February 26, 2020 (UTC)
re: Computer Tyrants
Yo! Before I answer your question let me be clear on what I'm trying to communicate.
I believe we need parameters, or guidelines to direct the content of the wiki. The word canon means standard or law, as if a line is drawn in the sand that you do not cross. That is what canon means. My standard is driven by E. Nelson Bridwell and his desire to tie the SF universe to Earth-One. So his assumption from the comics is that Earth-One is the main Background Information for all characters. That is why Filmation is lesser in my mind - because it was in E Nelsons mind when he wrote the SF comics. Another note, the pre-crisis retcons came after E.Nelsons tenure with DC comics, so it was tough at first for me to include them (although this is subjective and flexible). Yet, I finally decided the Crisis was the terminus for not only Earth-One, but also for Earth-1A, so I begin to incorporate the pre-crisis retcons.
In my mind, canon for Earth-1A should be:
- SF cartoon
- SF Comic
- Pre-crisis Comics referenced by E. Nelson Bridwell
Canon for Earth-1B (hypothetical as the below comics may or may not deviate from above canon):
- Super Powers Comics.
Yes I'm aware that according to our Earth-1A page, that one of the DC comic encyclopedia combined much of the above into Earth-Thirty-Two.
You should check out the character pages I listed above if you haven't yet. You'll see on the Toyman page that the Earth-1A info on character trumps the characters info from Earth-One and his untimely demise.
Now concerning your question... if I were to change my standard for canon, it would probably have to be a bonified attempt on the part of DC to create a SF story that was set during pre-crisis times ... not just an Earth-One/Earth-Two character time-traveling/revisiting his pre-crisis stomping grounds.
RE: Computer Tyrants page
By the way, the citations are great! I apologize if I reached out to you before you were done.
This was my answer: It would probably have to be a bonified attempt on the part of DC to create a SF story that was set during pre-crisis times ... not just an Earth-One/Earth-Two character time-traveling/revisiting his pre-crisis stomping grounds.
By bona fide attempt ... I mean an actual Earth 1A story. Which would mean I would have to change the way I see Canon.
Make sense now?
missed my point
Not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying it has to be official. Not a YouTube video by a fan.
Specifically footnote 22 to see how I understand earth One in relation to Earth-1a.
Speaking of Star Trek (and to your point) Im really enjoying Picard set in the Prime reality. It 'feels' like Star Trek. So much more than Discovery. Didnt even finish the first season.
Check the two pages out. This is ehy i have it lusted as Wayne Building.
Black Vulcan and Earth-Three
I suppose the Black Vulcan / Lightning question revolves around canon. It makes sense that he is supposed to be the Superfriends version of Black Lightning (amalgamation or otherwise). So why not have the info for Lighting on the Vulcan page. But again, it really comes down to canon and proof of his existence on Earth-1A. SuperAmigos and game-sets are low on my totem pole for canon sourcing.
As far as Earth-Three goes, I redirected it because the Universe of Evil is the SF version (and rip off) of Earth-Three. I also did it because the background info on the Universe of Evil page contained Earth-three info. so instead of duplicating our efforts, i streamlined it. Same rational for: The Crime Syndicate of America
Lastly, I see that you uploaded a new version of the Phantom Stranger's profile pic. If you look at the name of the pic I uploaded, it contains the source of the Pic (Name of comic and issue number). That is how I inventory and cite pictures. So if your going to replace pictures from another comic issue, I'd rather you upload an entirely new picture and then replace instead of adding a 'new version'. Make sense? The way you did it messes up the inventory, sourcing, citation and naming of the pic. Beyond that, I am of course, I am curious why you replaced it. I couldnt read thw note ypu put. And on a personal note, I looked through dozens of comics to find the clearest and best one... so much time invested.
Like you my friend, I take pride in my work.
Feed back welcomed!
Phantom Stranger, etal
I also think I should mention that my perspective on this wiki changed as I began to work on the comic books. As I read them and the Super Fans pages, I began to realize just how much Bridwell wanted to connect it to Earth-One. These were bonafide connections, beyond the conjecture of the various Filmation or Ruby-Spears shows, etc. With all these connections to Earth-One, his vision began to reign supreme in my thinking and so I began to make the same connections ... especially in the Background Info sections. I also began to notice that both wikipedia and the DC Database, on a whole had poor biography sections on the these various Earth-One characters (and Earth-Two)... by that I mean it lacked info and proper citation. And so it began ... my quest to not only make this the best SuperFriends wiki, but also the best source for pre-crisis characters and (to a lesser degree) pre-crisis TV shows (thus my beef with Harley Quinn ... but I think you source the toys, but are these toys pre-crisis? Anyway not my real point). This also begs the question for the Super Powers Comics (1984-1986) and the final season of the SF. But I suppose we'll deal with that when we start dissecting that info.
That is why I decided to find the best pictures of characters, (Phantom Stranger, Captain Marvel, etc) regardless on their SF connection (or source material). That is why I also asked you to cite the Filmation stuff too (we discussed this only a couple of weeks ago). I ask because the only thing on this wiki that should be assumed without citation is the TV show and the comics (of course its best to cite all that too).
This is also why I've undertaken to update everyone's bio ... to not only make them the best source for all things SF's but also the best pre-crisis source for these characters on the web!! Just the way Bridwell would have wanted it.
I also like to streamline pages with similar content .. bio section (since BV had no background info he now has BL info) ... appearances in other media, etc ... and the Black Vulcan page seems more comprehensive now and its just cool ... especially with the Black Lighting pictures I found ... lot's of work and time .. but fun nonetheless... :-)
Hope that helps.
Just like a good relationship... you present what you think is a good explanation ... but to no avail... :-)
Its's all good by the way. No worries. And your work speaks for itself. And the citations are much better on both our accounts.
Beyond that,t he Phantom Stranger thing is really a non-issue. All I'll say is that I used to find a picture that was connected to SF canon, but then I realized (in my small mind) that if Bridwell mentioned the character, everything regarding the character was canon. not just the SF source.
Also a small follow-up to something I referenced earlier... proper citation also includes that month and date... I've noticed that the DC database editors almost always cite the comic book but not the date it was published.
I do have one more thing to mention and only because its confusing. If confused on this, then I believe others would be as well. On one of your most recent edits ... Crisis on Infinite Earths 3 you reference Super Friends # 24 (April 1987). I believe that's confusing, meaning it seems like it should say 'Superamigos 24 (April 1987)' not 'Super Friends # 24 (April 1987).' At first blush its seems like its reference something else. Make sense? Beyond that, the article is great and I love how you tie the comic to the SF Universe and the Superamigos comic.
On a completely different note... the world has changed since we spoke last. I live in central Florida and we are currently under a voluntary quarantine. Curious what the next few days will bring.
Well .. I hope you don't give up. Your time and attention is much valued and needed. I've read most your edits. In fact, you have taught me a lot.
Crisis on Infinite Earths 3
I've made Crisis on Infinite Earths 3 a redirect to Crisis on Infinite Earths, 3. I did that for two reasons.  If you go to Crisis_on_Infinite_Earths#Crisis_on_Infinite_Earths_Limited_Series on the Crisis on Infinite Earths you'll see the list of the 12 comics that have pages yet to made.  Secondly, I did it because I have made a dozen or two pages that link to unmade pages.
Hope that is clear. Let me know if its not.
It just gets better!
Sheesh man! I'm sorry that is your plight. Hate to hear that kind of stuff. Feel free to share anytime.
So.. as of this coming Friday... the Florida governor has issued his 'safer at home' edict for 30 days. If this keeps up I'll be out of job on the other side of this. I work for a general contractor. It would be due to availability on out part, just so many people out of work or hording their money for a while.
Keep up the good work my friend.
Yes. It actually took about three weeks to so get it all together before I added it to the page. If that's a super boy picture all the super boy pics from other show to be put on the Superboy page.
If you haven't noticed I've taken the last few months to update all the profiles on the front page. Being home is giving me a lot of time. Lots of fun though. I started at the beginning and worked my way up to Superman. I'm currently working on Wonder Woman page. That will be updated soon. --Superman Fan (talk) 22:04, April 7, 2020 (UTC)
Gotcha. Didnt know that. And watch show. Watched smallville though. Did he ever wear suit?? If so we need that one.
On a different note, wonder womans timeline is so convoluted! Shes already a Lieutenant in WW 100. Thats only her wnd earth one appearance. And way before joins the airforce or works for NASA. Gonna take some time make sense of it all.
Better than Smallville huh. Season 1 - 6 are in my top 5 sci-fi shows ... up there with the re-imagined BSG. In any event, I'll have to check it out. I watched Lois in Clark in College in the dorm room wasn't that good but it was superman. I watched my fill of TNG and Highlander from the dorm too. Good times.
On a different note, I read yesterday the Superman Annual and the Black mercy dream due to the Wonder Woman connection. I was eventually gonna add a short blurb to the SUperman page.. and also add Mongal who is strangely absent.
Got it. Thanks for that advice. I still might keep Fuzzy on there, and maybe make the page itself, but ok, I'll think about it.
I just found out this: This version of Krypto Mouse, including all history and corresponding appearances, was erased from existence following the collapse of the original Multiverse in the 1985–86 Crisis on Infinite Earths limited series. Even though versions of the character may have since appeared, this information does not apply to those versions. Due to the natural lifespan of a mouse, it is reasonable to assume that Fuzzy died of old age between the time that Clark Kent adventured as Superboy and his adult career as Superman.
The Crisis on Infinite Earths part might make it related some how.
(1) Understood. I made changes to the footnote expressing your concern. Obviously you can make any other changes, if you deem it necessary.
(2) I see that you've been talking with User:TheAntennaGamer. That is my 11 year old son. He has been watching the SF lately and really likes it (of course he's seen all the DC and Marvel Movies too). In any event, he wanted to help on the wiki, since he's seen me home more lately and how I've been spending my time. So I gave him my folder with all my notes on all the episodes and told him to fill in the gaps on the various episode pages. Then a few days later, I see that he has been creating pages and that you got involved. Totally fine. You are an admin. So I showed him the manual of style and walked him through it. As I did, I saw your addition to the canon section and I realized that I have a much narrower sense of canon than you do. You have a looser sense. Again, I'm not talking about page content perse, I'm talking about canon. This is why I'm s hyper sensitive to citing all our sources. In any event, not a big deal but I thought I'd share.
(3) Lastly, any thoughts on the Wonder Woman page itself? It took almost 5 weeks of almost daily research ... ridiculous. But it's done. And have you had a chance to look at all the heroes on the front page? I've updated all their bios.
Re Wonder Woman
I know we smoking about this before but the more I think about it... The more I think we should change Wonder Woman's arrival in the US to about 15 years or so before 1976. This would of course be there early 60s. The reason for that is to accommodate for Marvin's age there's really no way to get around it and after a while newcomers to the wiki would begin to ask that question of course. First I thought 13... Because times were different back then... But since Wendy has a job she would at least be 15. And maybe Marvin is too unless he's a little younger. Thoughts? --Superman Fan (talk) 17:21, April 25, 2020 (UTC)
Re Wonder Woman
I know we've spoken about this before but the more I think about it... The more I think we should change Wonder Woman's arrival in the US to about 15 years or so before 1976. This would of course be there early 60s. The reason for that is to accommodate for Marvin's age there's really no way to get around it and after a while newcomers to the wiki would begin to ask that question of course. First I thought 13... Because times were different back then... But since Wendy has a job she would at least be 15. And maybe Marvin is too unless he's a little younger. Thoughts? --Superman Fan (talk) 17:22, April 25, 2020 (UTC)
Ok. I've watched the SuperFriends before, but I've never seen Yogi Bear before, but that doesn't mean he's not in it. And Meanwhile, At The Hall Of Justice is not legit SuperFriends, so Wolverine has actually never been in SuperFriends, except that. I can't really say any thing about Marvel Characters, because of The World's Greatest Super-Heroes, Super Powers Collection, and the Underoos commercials. You should check out more and tell me if things are connected.
Ok, Batman: The Animated Series is still not SuperFriends, although the references does not make it SuperFriends still. I meant Storm from X-Men. Hulk was only in a poster in the Plastic Man (TV series), (to my knowledge), and The Incredible Hulk was only a guy in a costume.
I see. The poster of Yogi Bear is in Drag Race, which is what you said, but it is in The New Adventures of the Wonder Twins, which is not real SuperFriends, but probably in the same universe. But its not SuperFriends because it has darker elements that would not be in the SuperFriends. And on The Caped Crusader Caper, I can't really say anything about that. I watched it before, but I don't remember seeing him in it.
Yeah. Black Comedy might work.
Here's a idea: Alternate Earth (The New Adventures of the Wonder Twins)
Just an fyi.. I update the Superman page with the Mongul intrusion into the Fortress.
I also added that pic you suggested to the JL page in Jr. superfriemds section.
And lastly, I updated the Womder Woman page section Lt. Diana ‘Prince’ / Captain Diana Prince - Military Intelligence / Location Unknown to make it more consistent with Diana of Paradise Island meeting Diana Prince and how it would make sense that she worked at the army hospital for a short while before joining Military Intelligence.
Hey there, you know you could be working on the episodes, because there is no information, I'll be working a lot on them and maybe you should to, after your done with all the episodes, you can continue on the other pages.