Talk:Earth-Forty

This sounds like Earth-Two...and when has Captain Thunder ever been in shown in the Super Friends franchise?

--Noah Tall (talk) 15:42, October 14, 2017 (UTC)

If I understand correctly, BruceGrubb is just attampting to show us the various earths on this wiki instead of having us link to other wiki's. If that is the case, state that on the page... something like .. this is info on Earth-Forty and has nothing to do with the SuperFriends universe itself... or soemthing like that.

​Superman Fan (talk) 17:06, October 14, 2017 (UTC)

I'm just having a hard time finding the connection to the Super Friends franchise at all...other than the fact that it is a DC Comics property. Of course if it has a reason for being here then I'm all for it, I just can't find it in my research. Everything I read about it on the DC DATABASE came from DC Comics...not the Super Friends comics, just the mainstream DC comics.

--Noah Tall (talk) 18:09, October 14, 2017 (UTC)

The main connection is Giganta who reveals her Earth-Forty origin in Super Friends (comic book) issue #30 (March 1, 1980) rather then the origin shows in the earlier History of Doom.--BruceGrubb (talk) 23:33, November 16, 2017 (UTC)

History of Doom

What was shown in her backstory in History of Doom could have occurred later, sometime after her backstory shown in the Super Friends comic. That's even how her article is written, with both backstories being mentioned.

I hardly see that it's a reason to say that the Super Friends comics are from Earth-40.

--Noah Tall (talk) 08:19, November 17, 2017 (UTC)

No one is saying Super Friends comics are from Earth-40 but rather that Earth-Forty (which is a totally different reality BTW) interacted with the Super Friends reality (which is Earth-Thirty-Two).--BruceGrubb (talk) 14:41, November 17, 2017 (UTC)

Guess not

After looking at the Giganta article again I see that you changed it, why I don't know. There's no reason to say that it's another Earth, I can't understand that at all. Besides, hypertime can explain certain things that we may perceive as contradictions, that's one of the reasons I made that article.

Also, I looked up Earth-Forty on the DC Database and it doesn't show anything about the Super Friends comic. Just because she may have the same origin story, doesn't mean it's the same Earth, I mean the Park Row tragedy and the Destruction of Krypton and even the Origin of Superman happened on a variety of different Earths.

It's like this, sure...Joe Chill is in The Fear, but that doesn't mean he's the same Joe Chill seen on Earth-Two or Earth-One or in Batman Begins for that matter...he's clearly a different version of the character, we can't just assume that just because he may share some similarity with another universe that we should say that The Fear took place in that certain universe but the rest of the series didn't.

I'm all for continuity here, and I'd like to think that the Super Friends (comic book) and the animated television show are part of the same continuity. I realize it isn't perfect, but hypertime is good for clearing up that sort of stuff, and hypertime is another article I wish you would have kept as I left it, instead of overcomplicating it. But that's a different topic altogether (sort of...anyway) I am glad that you make edits on here, we're very small in numbers on this wiki compared to other fandom wikis, but I really think we should treat all of the material as the same universe, unless it is clearly indicated otherwise (like the Universe of Evil for example...which is clearly another Earth, and even the DC Super Friends would have to be another Earth as well) but as for the material from the SF and SP comics, I'd say those are solid canon gold right there, Earth-1A, Earth-Thirty-Two...or whatever you wanna call it, but part of the same Earth.

I also want to say, I don't know what DC Comics official designation is for every Earth there is and what they consider part of what world, but it's far simpler just sticking to it from the Super Friends perspective, as that is what this wiki is supposed to be. DC and Marvel both have a tendency to revive or retcon their stuff, which were only listed, not actually canonically established. (in other words these are things shown on a list rather than established in the story itself) Also they are contradictory, the very Compendium you use as a source is apparently full of inconsistencies as noted here. They even mention the Super Friends comic, stating that something should have been part of that Earth but the Compendium falsely places it on some other Earth. Furthermore, the DC Database even notes that the Compendium is wrong about what Earth, the Super Powers comics are from, and DC Database have it listed as the Super Friends reality, rather than Earth-Thirty-Two. I don't mind using 32 as the name of the SuperFriends Universe, that isn't the issue, just as long as everything from the Superfriends franchise is part of the same Earth...including the SF and SP comics.

Now that being said, I still think that the backstory given in the Super Friends comic is just as canon as the one from History of Doom. What I'm trying to say is that we should write the article to say that the part of the backstory where she is an ape, turning into a woman, should be first chronologically, then later as she is riding horseback through the woods she comes across the magic powder to make her large. That way, we treat both stories as a valid part of continuity...it makes sense...plus we don't have to go through the headache of all that hypertime or multiverse stuff...at least with this issue...make sense?

--Noah Tall (talk) 08:59, November 17, 2017 (UTC)

Well DC didn't give names to every alternate Earths they showed. There were quite a few that Crisis on Infinite Earths: Absolute Edition didn't record. Then there is the mysterious Earth-Forty-Six which also had the name Earth-B2.

When you compare Superman Family Vol 1 202 with Superman (volume 1) #61 which are both supposed to happen on Earth-Two you quickly realize they can't...unless hypertime caused Superman to misremember the color of the gem (green rather then red) or distorted reality when the events happened (so a green gem was red). Either option is better then creating yet anther Earth.

Hypertime explains a lot of the continuity problems with the Superfriends stories as continuity is a tangled mess. History of Doom is the poster child of just how much a mess:

Because it makes references to previous events the story's very premise has huge continuity problems. Between the two of them both the Legion of Doom and Superfriends had the means to undo Luthor's blunder: the Interspacial Time Conveyor built into the Hall of Doom, the Monolith, the mental matter ray (turn any thought into instant reality), and the time travel abilities of Flash, Batman, and Black Vulcan. Heck, if the Legion of Doom had really been as evil as they were supposed to be they could have used the device that allowed the Hall of Doom to travel into another universe and escape, leaving the Superfriends and everybody else on the doomed Earth. Sinestro also had a way into the Anti-matter universe.

Trying to explain that piece of insanity is more work then it is worth. Same thing is true with Giganta. Just have a hypertime reality interface with the Superfriends reality and call it a day.

As for putting the Superfriends on another earth, all the notes on Crisis on Infinite Earths: Absolute Edition says is they weren't listed not they were assigned to some other Earth. In fact the talk page refers one to an image of the Compendium's list.

I should mention that the Essential Wonder Woman Encyclopedia (2010) puts DC Super Friends on Earth-508 so it is canon that it and the 1970s-1980 Superfriends are on two different realities. EWWE (2010) confirms that Superpowers (show and comics) occurred on Earth-Thirty-Two but for some insane reason puts Superfriends in the Earth-One reality and ignores Earth-Forty entirely. Finally, in 2015 EWWE got an update but what changes were made are unknown.--BruceGrubb (talk) 14:59, November 17, 2017 (UTC)

The fact that the Superfriends and Legion of Doom could have reversed everything that happened in History of Doom isn't even relevant. The fact is they didn't. That is an established canon fact, not that I brought that up to begin with.

I'm not even sure what it is you're trying to tell me, I'm fully aware that DC Super Friends and Super Friends are different Earths. But I'm not convinced that the Super Friends comic you refer to is from Earth-Forty, and as I said, we had already had the Giganta article written in such a way that both backstories could be canon. The Gorilla transformed into a woman thing had to come first, then the rest of her origin was in History of Doom. That's how the article was originally written. We were never concerned with the fact that one origin was on another Earth.

My point is, Earth-Forty comes from DC Comics, and it was never referenced in Super Friends. If we're honestly going to go by the premise of every single episode or SF comic, then we could probably find a way to say that every episode is on another Earth.

For example, how many times has Superman forgotten he has super powers? Or what about when Wonder Woman's unbreakable lasso actually breaks? I like to think her lasso is unbreakable...to most people...just like I'd like to think that Superman is invulnerable...to most people. But of course he really isn't, because people as strong as him can still hurt him.

The series doesn't always conform to logic. We can just assume that it's part of the flaws of the Super Friends universe, rather than assume it's another universe.

--Noah Tall (talk) 03:56, November 18, 2017 (UTC)

I have no idea where you are getting this idea that the comic story itself is from Earth-Forty; it is referencing events of Earth-Forty. Big difference. As mentioned before Hypertime is a great continuity issue cement without invoking yet another freaking Earth. As for Super Friends comic referencing events of Earth-Forty; AFAIK there are only two origins for Giganta presented Pre-Crisis: the Earth-Two version in Wonder Woman Vol 1 #9 and the Earth-Forty version in Wonder Woman Vol 1 #163. True you could fudge things given the ambiguity of the 1941 referenced in Secret origins of the Superfriends as Wonder Woman Vol 1 #9 was published in 1944 and use that origin but that creates other problems as Earth-One didn't have a Spear or Grail to prevent supers form going in and ending WWII in months perhaps weeks.

The more I look at Earth-Forty-Six's alternate name of "Earth-B2" the more I wonder if that was planned to be the Superfriends reality but they couldn't fit the details in.--BruceGrubb (talk) 12:22, November 18, 2017 (UTC)

Okay, that clarifies a few things, but to reiterate, I never said I thought that particular issue or any issue of Superfriends comic was part of Earth-Forty, I was under the impression that you were trying to say that, which is why there is a page. I get now, that it is similar to the origin presented in Earth-Forty, but what I don't get is why we would need a page for it if it's not really the Earth that comic is from. I mean technically, every universe has Krypton blowing up, but that doesn't mean that all versions are Earth-One...another thing, Superfriends continuity also...is not from Earth-One, that is not this Earth-One, but rather this Earth-One. Yes, as noted in the article there are similarities, as Bridwell had intended it to be Earth-One originally, and even references were made to other comics from that period which were Earth One, but those plans were scrapped.

Don't worry man I'm not out to delete your page, I was more concerned that you were trying to separate the continuity of the Super Friends cartoon from the comics. If you feel that the Earth being similar to that is a good enough reason, then I won't touch it anymore. I personally would rather go by what the Superfriends franchise says, rather than DC Comics. But it's whatever...thank you for the clarification.

--Noah Tall (talk) 15:37, November 18, 2017 (UTC)

We could explain it like Noah Tall said about both being within the Earth-1A universe. But lets say they are irreconcilable. Then, I like the idea of having it, mainly so we don't have to link to an external page. We keep it in house and customize its content to reflect the connection to Earth-1A. I think 'connection' is ok as long as we cite the connection, which it looks like BruceGrubb did. All I ask is that we keep citing sources and be clear in the citation. Then we should be ok.

Superman Fan (talk) 20:34, November 18, 2017 (UTC)

Majority rules...I guess I don't have a problem with it.

--Noah Tall (talk) 20:37, November 18, 2017 (UTC)

I should mention that the DCAU covering Batman: The Animated Series though Justice League Unlimited with the addition of Batman and Harley Quinn is officially set on yet another Earth: Earth-12 (which is a totally different reality then Earth-Twelve where the Inferior Five were) This means that we don't have to try and fit everything into the Superfriends universe. But again we shouldn't created Earths willy nilly if hypertime can address most of the problems.--BruceGrubb (talk) 23:58, November 18, 2017 (UTC)

Okay, yeah, I see what you're saying. I actually never intended to place DCAU into the Superfriends Earth, when I made the Batman: The Animated Series page, it was because it was for the whole Super Friends in popular culture thing. I hadn't done any real work on that in a while. I was gonna write about how at times Batman batsignal on his chest would have it's colors inverted like in the Superfriends and stuff like that. We have a page for Doctor Who, Star Trek and That '70s Show and other stuff as well...none of those of course are meant to have their own episode or character pages or anything like that, just because of their Super Friends references and stuff.

--Noah Tall (talk) 16:18, November 19, 2017 (UTC)

I see. Though the more I look at it I wonder if Superfriends and Super Powers were better served if they were split into two different (but related through hypertime) realities: Super Powers on Earth-Thirty-Two (as stated in two official sources) and Earth-Forty-Six. The Compendium is the only reference I have found regarding "Earth-B2" so I am not sure what that was supposed to be but the name implies some form of alternate Earth-B (an alternate Earth-Two would have logically had the name Earth-Two-B)--BruceGrubb (talk) 12:48, November 20, 2017 (UTC)

Well...I don't know...according to Wikipedia, Earth-Forty-Six seems to be another name for; or an alternate version of the Earth you just mentioned, which is Earth-B2. It is indicated that Earth-B2 (and apparently by extension Forty-Six) is either an alternate version of Earth-Two-A, or one and the same. It's not entirely clear, probably because the Index isn't that clear. By the description it sounds more like it would have to be and earth similar to Earth-Two, since it does refer to Superman and George Taylor and '40s stuff.

Anyway like I said, I just don't have a clue what Earth that is for one thing. Not enough information was given, and honestly I'd much rather Super Friends and Super Powers exist together, I'm pretty sure that was the original intent, in the Super Powers comics they were called the Super Powers Team just like in the final season of the show, and even though DC might try to unsay something from before, I'd rather go by the Super Friends/Super Powers franchise then the mainstream DC comics, just because I think they should be the absolute canon. Although I'm sure the DC Database would be great for all that stuff, but I don't know about here, where we really are just simply trying to be a Super Friends wiki...I don't know man, it's difficult for me to picture.

--Noah Tall (talk) 16:11, November 20, 2017 (UTC)

Earth-Two-A is a weird little reality. Largely because "The Official Crisis on Infinite Earths Index" is so vague on what falls in it. At the most general level it covers any Golden Age story involving Superman and many (if not all involving Superboy) from the 1940's to 1950s that doesn't really fit into Earth-One or Earth-Two continuity.

It doesn't help that Mark Gruenwald in Omniverse #1 (1977) used aspects of this reality to form yet another Earth: [Earth-E] which covered nearly all the adventures of Superman and Batman between All-Star Comics #57 (March, 1951) and Brave and the Bold #28 (March, 1960).

Earth-E comes off as a mishmash of Earth-Two-A and Earth-Thirty-Two and as a result one can't say where any Superman story before The Flash vol1 #123 (1961) happened....other then it did NOT happen on Earth-Two.--BruceGrubb (talk) 17:56, November 21, 2017 (UTC)